June 2010

Your letters

Follow that horse

I was interested in ‘Preachers’ Tales’ (April) as my father was a Methodist local preacher for many years and the Darlington North circuit had some little village chapels where he enjoyed preaching. In his early days as a preacher, transport was provided by a horse and trap. A group of preachers would be picked up in Darlington and dropped at the villages for their appointments. This meant that the preacher for the last chapel on the route was in charge of the trap.

As my father had never driven a trap he was rather apprehensive on finding himself in this position, but he soon found that he had no need to worry as the horse knew what to do. The horse made his way to the usual farm, where he was fed and watered while my father enjoyed a farmhouse tea to give him strength for the evening service.

That same horse showed further knowledge of the route. The preachers were returning from their evening appointments one dark night. One of them decided that instead of waiting at the lane end he would walk up the road to meet the trap. This move didn’t work out as the wise old horse had halted at the lane end where a passenger was generally picked up on Sunday nights.

This type of transport ended when more cars appeared and eventually the villages had a bus service. Thus ended the horse hire fund, which had once featured amongst the accounts of church finances.

Margaret Lavender, Darlington

Historic Title

Regarding Phil Penfold’s ‘Strange Yorkshire Pub Names’ (April), the Earldom was created in 1690 when Richard Lumley was created First Earl of Scarbrough. He also held the title of Baron Lumley of Lumley Castle and Viscount Lumley.

To this day the title remains the same, Earl of Scarbrough. I was in service to the present Earl’s father when he was Lord Chamberlain to Her Majesty the Queen in coronation year 1953.

Trevor Armitage, Boxhill, Surrey

Scoth Corner's stone man

I have walked the public footpath at Scotch Corner on many occasions during the past sixty years and always assumed that the stone figure in the chapel, depicted in April’s Dalesman, was of Hugh Dormer as it is not in military uniform.

Hugh was a former pupil of Ampleforth College who was a subaltern in the Irish Guards stationed in Duncombe Park in the war. He volunteered for service with the Special Operations Executive (SOE) and on 18 April 1943 was dropped from a Halifax with a party of six to destroy a plant producing oil at Le Creusot in France.

Their presence became known and they made their way to Paris, then by train to Perpignan, and walked across the Pyrenees to Spain and Gibraltar and got back to England.

On 16 August 1943 Hugh led another party to the same target and this time was successful in disabling it. They made the same journey across the Pyrenees to England; only two out of the six came home. Hugh returned to his regiment and was killed in Normandy on 31 July 1944.

For his actions with SOE he was awarded a Distinguished Service Order (DSO), unusual for a subaltern.

Some years ago I was to lead a party in the area of the chapel and asked John Bunting if I could have access; this was not possible but he sent me a booklet he had produced called Scullion II – Notes on Hugh Dormer’s Diaries.

It seems that he had located a surviving member of the party and had gone with him to France and re-traced the route of the party over the Pyrenees, this time by car.

He was less than generous to Hugh Dormer and I told him that this was unforgivable.

Bill Heppell (ex-SOE), York

Perils of nature calling

In April’s enjoyable issue, the letter ‘Toilet Humour’ reminded me of a story about a newly appointed vicar visiting a Dales parishioner. After two good cuppas, he’s looking a bit fidgety.

Parishioner: “If you want t’ doins Vicar, it’s up t’ garden.”
Vicar: “Thank you so much, please excuse me a moment.”
Vicar, on returning: “All’s well, my dear, I pulled the chain.”
Parishioner: “Pulled t’ chain vicar? There’s no chain, it’s a proper closet.”
Vicar: “Oh yes there is, a wooden handle hanging from a string.”
Parishioner: “Oh, no vicar, you’ve gone an’ let ’is pigeons out!”

Roger Johnson, Malvern, Worcestershire

Singing for Yorkshire

In February’s Dalesman Ian Ward asks if anyone knows the words or anything about the song ‘Yorkshire, My Yorkshire’.

I have a Chandos Records Limited CD entitled ‘A Song of Yorkshire’ which may contain the words Mr Ward is thinking about. The introductory item is a song of Yorkshire and the explanatory booklet states the various facts of Yorkshire life which are graphically described, and Gordon Langford’s music, set to Agnes Wright’s words, is sure to stir the blood of any Yorkshire listener.

The CD features Sellers Engineering Band, Honley Male Voice Choir, Boys of Leeds Parish Church Choir and the organist Simon Lindley, all conducted by Phillip McCann. The date on the
CD is 1992.

Hopefully the information will be helpful to Mr Ward and enable him to obtain a copy of the CD.

Mr H K Patefield, Chorley, Lancashire

Triggers unite

It was very welcome to see the article (April) regarding Dave Woffenden and his affection for trig pillars.

I too am likewise afflicted and although I don’t have Dave’s number of years pursuing this hobby/ challenge I do share his enthusiasm. Might I report a few things to those interested in such honourable endeavours.

Firstly, yes it’s easy to liken it to trainspotting but ‘trigging’ anything in the Dales requires a degree of physical effort that is surely good for the health.

Secondly, Dave is a little disingenuous regarding Blea Moor. I’ve visited this truly wonderful plateau (and trig) half a dozen times and while it may have been poor weather on Dave’s visits in good weather the views are second to none. You get the Three Peaks, the Howgills, Great Knoutberry, the Lakeland fells, Baugh Fell etc – stunning is too simple a word for it.

Thirdly, the removal of the trig pillar from Addlebrough was nothing short of an act of vandalism by the National Trust – I find it truly obnoxiously patronising that they deemed an ‘ancient marking’ that can be found all over the place (as can a trig of course) more worthy than a more recent monument which, let’s face it, has far more interest to the average punter than a few old marks on a rock.

Fourthly, the route as described over Horse Head Pass that includes Low Greenfield bemuses me as the natural high-rise horseshoe includes Cosh Outside, Horse Head and Firth Fell (and possibly on to Middlemoor Pasture). To visit the trig at Low Greenfield would require a substantial descent and ascent, which, while being enjoyable enough in themselves, are not part of the natural ‘skyline’ route.

Fifthly, unfortunately the trig pillar Dave mentions near Halifax (Southowram) has now indeed been lost to the quarry.

Finally, I’d like to make readers aware of a wonderful website dedicated to all things trig-ish – www.trigpointinguk.com carries a plethora of information relating to trig points (not just the pillars). It allows you to log your visits and add comments – something that can be really useful if access is a problem.

Martin Cossins, by email

Can you help?

I am researching the history of angling in Yorkshire and I am looking for relevant items such as minute books, old and new photographs, newspaper cuttings, local fishing memorabilia, old membership books, anything that can be used in my project.

Hopefully I will be able to include all types of fishing that go to make up the county’s traditions – game, coarse, and sea fishing. My intention is to write an account from when county angling started until the present day.

Everything will be treated with care and returned as required, to be listed in the final publication with thanks.

My dedication will be for the registered charity The Wheelyboat Trust, who fund disabled friendly boats that can be found all over the country. This charity receives no government grants of any type to fund its worthy aims, and therefore has to rely on the generosity of the members of the public.

Ronnie Noble, 3 Uplands, Skipton, North Yorkshire BD23 1BJ

email ronnienoble43@yahoo.com

Family Quest

I am trying to contact Arthur Godfrey who I think may be a cousin. My late mother, Dorothy Gertrude Taylor, née Godfrey, had a brother, Thomas Arthur (known as Arthur), who died on the 4 July 1984.

He was married to Edna and they had two sons, Arthur and Keith, and a daughter, Doreen. Dorothy (known as Dolly) had four children: Donald (1934), Shirley (1936-1941), myself (1949) and Beryl (1951).

My father George was a miner before the war, working in pits around Castleford. They moved to work in the Kent coalfields in 1936 with my mother only going back to Yorkshire for a short time during the early part of the war.

Later they lived in Eastbourne (where I was born), London (where my sister was born) and from 1951 to their deaths in 1996 and 1997 in Basingstoke.

My only recollection of meeting Uncle Arthur was at my grandmother’s funeral in Castleford in 1974 and I don’t believe I met any of his three children.
I’d love to know more about my Yorkshire family, especially as my grandfather died before I was born and was apparently quite a character. 

Brian Taylor, email brian.taylor001@ntlworld.com


The Dalesman website contains a comprehensive alphabetical section on people searching for their Yorkshire roots. Please click here

We welcome readers' letters, which should be sent to:
Dalesman, The Water Mill, Broughton Hall, Skipton, North Yorkshire BD23 3AG
Or email: paul@dalesman.co.uk

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